Carnival of Divided Government Septimus Decimus - Scary Halloween Edition

UPDATED
Welcome to the October 31, 2007 edition of the Carnival of Divided Government Septimus Decimus - Scary Halloween Edition. This the latest in a continuing series of irregularly scheduled compilations of bloody blog posts, ghostly essays, and horrifying articles on divided government conjured up from the blogosphere and the demon infested inferno of main stream media.

While scary, this carnival cannot compare to the heart stopping fear induced by yet another Presidential debate. Last night, it was the Democrats in Philadelphia on MSNBC. I had to choose between attempting yet another death defying live-blogging the live-bloggers or get this Carnival edition out on time. Since you are reading this (hopefully on Halloween) - you already know I chose to fulfill my Carnival responsibility. I chose wisely, but did watch the debate. Seeing Edwards, Dodd and Obama stalking Clinton, shooting silver bullets, and attempting to put a stake through the heart of the vampire queen put me in the right mood for this carnival theme. Equally frightening, was watching the undead candidacy of Richardson and Kucinich desperately searching for fresh blood and invoking UFO's. Spooky. As usual, a good summary and coverage by Andrew Sullivan, Joe Gandelman and Nick Gillespie.

Introduction

As explained in earlier editions, we have adopted Latin ordinal numeration in order to impart a patina of gravitas reflecting the historical importance of the series. In this edition, as in all of the CODGOV series, we select volunteers and draftees from the blogosphere and main stream media on the singular topic of government divided between the major parties (leaving it to the reader to sort out volunteers from draftees). Consistent with this topic, the primary criteria for acceptance in the carnival is to explicitly use the words and/or concept of "divided government" in submitted posts. A criteria that, to our endless befuddlement, is ignored by many of the bloggers submitting posts, which sadly results in DWSUWF reluctantly ignoring their fine submissions. Without further ado...

Ten Spine Tingling Divided Government Posts.

We begin with Andrew Roth at The Club for Growth, who fears that "Congress Reaches the Wrong Milestone":

"My good friend Rob Bluey notes that the U.S. House has had more than 1,000 roll call votes so far this year. On the surface, it looks like the Democrats are doing something, but if you investigate further, you'll see that they aren't doing much of anything. Of course, this is a double edge sword. Divided government is preventing a lot of bad proposals from passing, but it's also preventing a lot of good ones, too."

Nothing to be afraid of Andrew. That is the way divided government is supposed to work. You see, the Democrats may not agree that the bills that are being prevented from passing are all "good ones". When Democrats and Republicans craft bills that both agree is a "good one", it will pass.

BNJ at Cynical Nation is haunted by the bone chilling realization that maintaining a divided government means voting Republican for President, and choosing from that lot presents quite "The libertarian dilemma":

"Yeah, there are things about Rudy that concern me. There are aspects of all the candidates that concern me. Most libertarians I know are accustomed to making tough, pragmatic choices as to which half-a-loaf they're going to cast their lot with. So what's a small-l libertarian to do? All the Democrats, without exception, want to roll back the Bush tax cuts, so that puts them at an extreme disadvantage with me right off the bat. Furthermore, I think divided government is the best friend a libertarian can have in the real world. With Congress firmly in Democratic hands, I'm reluctant to send a Democrat to the White House unless I just have to."

He does not have to send a Democrat to the White House in 2008. I hope my comment exorcised his electoral demons. This edition BNJ scores a rare two-fer with his perfectly titled post "The Joys of Divided Government":

"I was just encouraged that Bush could actually veto a spending bill, because I was really beginning to doubt it. But this is exactly why I think divided government is the least of all evils. Does anyone doubt for a minute that Bush would have happily signed the exact same bill had it been sent to him by a Republican congress? I don't. God knows he signed off much worse budgetary abominations during the past six years."

So true.

Christopher arrives at a similar conclusion at the The Charter of Dreams when he invokes the nightmare of single party control of the federal government. His post has a complex title utilized frightening new mind control technology "The Presidential Logic of a Giuliani Candidacy: New York City (the way it was) and Divided Government":

"Finally, the Democrats will probably hold onto the House and Senate in 2008 (because the GOP screwed up -- and they know it), so by putting a Giuliani in the White House, we'll be giving divided government a chance. Disclosure about how well I'm trying to manipulate you: the headline of this post has an Emotional Marketing Value Score of 47.06% with equal appeals to your intellectual and empathetic spheres . . ."

I had no idea WTF Christopher was talking about with that title score, but I did find it oddly compelling. Following the link, I determimed that the title of this post has a barely competent EMV score of 30%.

Chad Wilcox at Quiet Declarations has "A different take on Conservatism":

"...the challenge of that definition of conservativism is that it’s by definition a reactionary ideology, which may help to explain why it’s most effective when it is in a position of checking (as in a minority or divided government) or reforming (see: Contract with America) as opposed to enacting and executing laws derived from a consistent set of principles."

It is as good a theory as any to explain why good "Dr. Jekyll" conservatives turn into evil "Mr. Hyde" Big Spending, Big Deficit, Big Government Republicans when they hold all the cards in Washington.

Jacques Mistral at InTimeConviction explains the US government to his countrymen in "A Washington, le Congrès gouverne, le Président administre" [In Washington, the Congress controls, the President manages]:

"D’où le Congrès tire-t-il son pouvoir opérationnel, disons son pouvoir de gouverner puisque c’est le terme employé à propos du partage des tâches entre la Maison Blanche et la Colline (à titre d’exemple, l’équivalent de ce que nous appelons cohabitation se dit "divided government")? Tout simplement de ce que c’est lui, pas le pouvoir exécutif, qui décide des programmes, de la création des agences chargées de les mettre en œuvre et de leur financement, de ce qu’il consent, au Sénat, à la nomination de leur dirigeant et procède finalement à leur évaluation permanente au fil d’innombrables hearings."

I cannot disagree.

XWL at Immodest Proposals has been digging in the dark dusty graveyard of the NYT archives and unearthed an eerie parallel to the 1920 presidential election in "The more things change":

"Partisanship is nothing new. Fear of an overcharged executive branch is nothing new. For those playing along at home [my party]=Republican Party, [other party]=Democratic Party, and [foreign entanglement]=joining the League of Nations. The more things change . . . I wonder how much of this script will Sen. Clinton pick up? Will she suggest ending 'divided government' be a good thing? Will she suggest that she will rein in the executive branch? Will she offer a foreign policy that gives "peace in industry"? Will she offer the people "relief from anxiety and gratitude for a common-sense future"?"

Will the ghosts of election pasts possess the Democratic front runner? We shall see.

I suspect that Jimmy Atkinson gratuitously inserted the worlds "divided government" into his post "Comparison: Presidential Candidates on Major Healthcare Issues" posted at NOEDb: Nursing Online Education Database just to meet our criteria for inclusion in this carnival:

"Americans have lost patience with a failing healthcare system in our divided government, but some answers - such as a universal healthcare system - meet resistance in some quarters. The dissatisfaction is so palpable that other countries have picked up on the raw statistics to use as comparisons to their systems. This article addresses prominent healthcare problems and how each Republican and Democratic presidential candidate stands on those issues."

No matter. Rules are rules. If you mention divided government, you're in the carnival. Regardless, this is a great post, as Jimmy offers an excellent and comprehensive overview of health care issues and the positions staked out by the major presidential candidates. Well worth the read.

TBlumer at Bizzy Blog is experiencing some time management issues, but is not too busy to note this benefit of divided government in "So Many Posts Backed up, So Little Time":

"The federal deficit came in at $162.8 billion, down over 1/3 from last year, and $98 billion lower than where Bush in 2003 or 2004 promised it would be in the 2009-2010 budget, i.e., two years from now. September revenues were right at what I expected, but September spending was even lower than expected. Those who think that divided government in Washington is a good thing have a measure of vindication in the fact that total 2006-2007 spending was only 2.8% higher than 2005-2006 — not much higher than inflation, and the lowest rate of increase in a very long time."

Ah... sweet sweet vindication.

Barbara O'Brien at the Mahablog missed the last Republican debate and ruminates about the history and future of Conservatism in America after reading a Guardian article in "Wild Things":

"Tomasky points out that “movement conservatism” has been around since the 1950s, but not until the Bush Administration did movement conservatives have complete control of the federal government. Reagan had a Democratic Congress, and when the Republicans took over the Congress in the 1990s they had to deal with a Democratic president. Divided government moderated what the Right could achieve and provided righties with someone to blame for whatever went wrong."

Good observation, and with any luck, in 2009, divided government will moderate what the left can achieve and provided lefties with someone to blame for whatever goes wrong. I love it when a plan comes together.

Finally, we would be remiss if we did not modestly note some of the reaction to an excellent recent post on the subject by um... me. Bloggers joining the conversation initiated by said post "Voting By Objective" include: Mike the Actuary musing "On the Benefits of Divided Government"; Michael van der Galiën asking "Why Should You Vote for Divided Government"; Pete Abel posting at Central Sanity with "Divided-Government vs. Best-Candidate Voting", and at the Moderate Voice with "Situational vs. Ideological Voting".

One marginally off-topic post.

Finally, although we try to keep this carnival focused on the specific topic of divided government, we traditionally include one off topic post as a grudging acknowledgment and symbolic proxy for the many off-topic posts submitted. This month we venture overseas, with a post that does not speak to US divided government issues at all, is focused on a purely local issue, but nevertheless speaks to the efficacy of restraining bad government at bay by keeping politicians at each others throat.

Riversider presents "Ribble Barrage and Floodplain Building Developments Take 'Backward Step' - Has The Ribble Been Saved?" posted at Save The Ribble, saying,

"We are winning our environmental argument by setting one local council against another using the power of local blogging. Divide and Rule works both ways!"

As a fisherman, with an abiding affection for natural, healthy, free-flowing trout infested rivers, I really enjoyed reading Riversider's account of the efforts to save the Ribble. Check it out.

Miscellany

With that we conclude this edition. Thanks for stopping by, and thanks for all of the submissions (on-topic or not). The next edition will be the Carnival of Divided Government Duodêvîcêsimus - Special Winter Solstice Edition, to be posted on or about December 22nd, 2007. It'll be a long stretch between now and then - unavoidable since my wife and I will be leaving next week for a month long trip exploring West Africa, and the blog will likely be on hiatus. Unavoidable unless - somebody would like to volunteer to host a Carnival of Divided Government between now and then. If you are up for it, Send me an email at DWSUWF AT Gmail DOT com. In either case, Blog articles may be submitted for the next carnival of divided government using the carnival submission form. Past posts can be found on our blog carnival index page.

UPDATE: 11/02/07 11/09/07
I know this is well past Halloween, but I needed to add a few more links.

Carnivalingus

Some recent carnivals and compilations of note:

• The Maiden's monthly compilation "Not my country. Not my country. " at Hell's Handmaiden.
• James Joyner's "Beltway Traffic Jam" at Outside the Beltway.
• Andrews Ian Dodgebloom's "Carnival of the Vanities" at Dodgeblogium.
• Pat Santy's "Carnival of the Insanities" posted at Dr. Sanity.
• Natural Collection's Carnival of the Green.
• BMD's Economics and Social Policy #XXXVII posted at The Boring Made Dull.
  

Divided and Balanced.™ Now that is fair.

Technorati tags: divided government, CODGOV,blog carnival,Hillary Clinton ,Barack Obama ,John Edwards, Dennis Kucinich ,Barack Obama ,Bill Richardson,debate

Stack Ranking the Contenders

Updated rankings, informed by Tuesday's Republican debate. This the tenth major update since the very first DWSUWF Presidential Stack Ranking was posted on 06:06:06 AM on 06/06/06, the latest since the ranking of 07:07:07 AM on 07/07/07, and the second stack ranking since DWSUWF embraced Republicanism (sort of) ...

DWSUWF 2008 Presidential Candidate
Stack Ranking v. 2.7

1) Ron Paul (R)
2 ) Chris Dodd (D)
3) Mitt Romney (R)
4) Joe Biden (D)
5) Fred Thompson (R)
6) Hillary Clinton (D)
7) John McCain (R)
8) Barack Obama (D)
9) Chuck Hagel (R) /Mike Bloomberg (I)/ Unity08
10) Al Gore (D)

Changes: The major changes are on the Republican side. With Hagel out, Ron Paul moves to the top of the Republican rankings. I am just not willing to completely let go of Chuck quite yet. I cling to the hope that he is no more sincere about not "intending" to be a candidate than Larry Craig was "intending" to resign from the Senate. I hooked Chuck up with Bloomberg in the number 9 spot on the off chance that Unity08 fills the gap if/when the GOP collapses completely. Ron Paul's fund raising, debate performance and internet savvy campaign continues to impress, although I still do not believe he has a snowball's chance in Hell of winning the nomination.

Iraq remains my primary issue for 2008, which presents a challenge to my Republican ranking with Hagel out. Romney's slick Clintonesque sincere-ish quality, even when explaining 180 degree flip-flops in core convictions serves him well in this regard. It is clear that, like Bill Clinton, he will govern based on the polls and continuous compromise. Not a bad thing, since there will still be a Democratic majority in Congress in 2009 and 70% of America wanting us out of Iraq. As president, Romney will get us out of Iraq quickly, no matter what he says now to get the nomination. He can be trusted to blow with wind. Out of this batch of Republican candidates, it's good enough for me. After Iraq as an issue, respect for the Constitution and individual liberties rises to the fore. I liked Fred Thompson's answer in the debate about securing Congressional approval and American support before any more foreign military adventuring, so he debuts in the ranking as my number three Republican. McCain's views on the war are a problem, but the rest of the Republican field on torture and civil liberties are worse. McCain holds our fourth Republican spot.

On the Democrat side, I can't make excuses for Bill Richardson's gaffe's anymore so have dropped him completely. In any case, he is apparently running for Vice President and Barack Obama has the inside track for that role. Chris Dodd is now giving Biden competition as the most articulate and intelligent of the Dems in the debate, and HRC remains, not surprisingly, the most "Clintonesque" (see Romney description above) of the Democrats. Although I still do not believe that he will run, I have added Al Gore in a special guest appearance in the ranking, as an acknowledgment of his Nobel Peace Prize honor.

As a reminder, the DWSUWF stack ranking is a preference not a prediction. This list represents the top ten candidates DWSUWF would like to see as President, stack ranked in order of preference. Imposed on this list are two constraints: alternating political party affiliation, and a divided government outcome in 2008.

Divided and Balanced.™ Now that is fair.

Technorati tags: divided government, Chuck Hagel,2008 election, John McCain, Republican,Rudy Giuliani,Mitt Romney,Ron Paul,Mike Bloomberg,Joe Biden,Hillary Clinton,Bill Richardson,Al Gore,Fred Thompson,Chris Dodd, Barack Obama.

Live Blogging the Live Bloggers - Democratic Party "YouTube" Debate

UPDATED: 07-25-07
I missed the last two talkfests, but with the Democratic presidential candidates taking the stage again tonight for a debate hosted by CNN/YouTube and moderated by Anderson Cooper - we are on the case. I'll start with the question I have asked before:

"There are plenty of bloggers covering the debate live tonight, but is anyone covering the live bloggers? DWSUWF rushes in where other, more sensible bloggers, fear to tread. "

As before, we'll include Daily Kos, Heading Right, Wonkette, for a "left", "right" and "whatever" perspective and will add the Reason Hit and Run Blog for a libertarian point of view. I'll also add a moderate blog if I can find one blogging live between now and 7:00 PM EDT. If any are not live blogging, we'll be scrambling for a substitute.

It'll take a few minutes to ramp up, but the beer has been poured and here we go - keep refreshing your browser for latest updates ...

======

GETTING STARTED
Wonkette: "Do you have CNN-YouTube fever? Neither do we. Also, it’s 4 p.m. in the West Coast office and we are, sadly, totally sober. We are opening a bottle right now."
Daily Kos: "The CNN pre-debate panel: a Republican strategist (Ed Rollins), a conservative columnist from the NY Daily News (Michael Goodwin), and a Hillary strategist. And Lou Dobbs. Ugh."
Andrew Sullivan: "I'm watching. I can't say I see anything that interesting thus far. Except Clinton's disavowal of the word "liberal" and Gravel's loopy aggression. Stay tuned for more reax. But I can't be the only one feeling debate fatigue."
Reason - David Weigel: "I've got my Coke, my sushi and my viking helmet. Let's go. You know what pre-canned YouTubes can't do? Ask follow-up questions. I'm pessimistic."
2008Central: "Introductory Youtube remarks from some guy with a soul patch who looks like he’s in an emo band in his spare time starts the debate off. Cooper introduces the debate and talks up the quality of the questions. … And they promptly start with a laugh track of silly ones. Way to build credibility."
DWSUWF: No action at Heading Right, substituting The Conservative Soul- Andrew Sullivan.

=====

BIDEN & EDWARDS SAY HAGEL IS BEST REPUBLICAN
Wonkette: "Everybody loves Chuck Hagel. Maybe he should be a president?"
Daily Kos Commenters: King One Eye, dougymi & ptmfbcs: "Chuck Hagel! As Biden's VP? And Edwards?(Who I've been leaning toward) That's disgraceful!" "hagel? well, forget biden for sure. Edwards has some questions to answer on that one too. hagel is a wingnut who's against the war.", "I still liked it...if only because it just killed Hagel among Republicans. Well, if he wasn't already dead to them?"
Reason - David Weigel: "Chuck Hagel shoots his TV."
2008Central: "What Republican would you choose for a running mate? Biden says Hagel, the perfect and only choice really. Biden also touts his crime bill. Edwards quickly says Hagel, and talks about instituting “real change” with someone who has been there."
DWSUWF: Now that is interesting- Democrats are afraid of Hagel, Republicans won't nominate him. Sad.

======

"WOULD YOU ALLOW US TO BE MARRIED"
Wonkette: " No, you lesbians can’t have marriage... Unless Dennis the Kucinich is president!... Welcome to America, lesbians!... Chris Dodd’s daughters … are they lesbians?
... John Edwards still creeped out by the gays, while his wife is still a fag hag."
Daily Kos Commenters: Rjones 2818 & Escapee: "Gay Marriage. Kucinich: Yes - If the Constitution means what it says than Gays, etc. have the right to marry. Goodbye, Dodd - Marriage or nothin'"
Andrew Sullivan: "They still won't actually answer the simple question: Why do you oppose equal marriage rights? ... They still smell of fear. As long as candidates are too afraid to stand up for what they believe, why should anyone support them? We're not electing a focus-group or a consultant. We're supposed to be electing a president."
Reason - David Weigel: "Kucinich and Dodd would let gays marry. They'll also legalize unicorns. Neither of them will win, everybody. - Richardson for everything but the word "marriage."
2008Central: "Edwards is asked about religious justifications for slavery, discrimination, and against gay marriage. Explains that he personally does not believe in gay marriage, but does believe in full rights, and would not use religious beliefs to directly determine policy, contrasting his position with that of his wife. The Rev. who asked the question stands up in the audience and says Edwards did not broaden the question as he intended (no, he actually just answered the question… :roll eyes:) Edwards speaks again and goes over the same ground."

======

IRAQ
Wonkette: "Democrats won in November, yet they’ve curiously done nothing about Iraq. Why such pussies? (Note: That was the only coherent/worthwhile question so far.) ... Biden’s “YouTube-style video” is just a crappy teevee commercial. He should’ve done one with the Mentos and Pepsi. - Okay, I just texted for peace. Do we have peace yet? Also, is Kucinich making money off this scam?"
Daily Kos Commenters: Lisa & MoronMike: ""Surpising -I find myself impressed by Biden." "He never fails to impress me when he gets on a roll. The man has knowledge and passion." "Iraq is Biden's high fastball""
Andrew Sullivan: "For the record: the lamest phrases yet are Obama's "diplomatic surge" and Dodd's "aggressive diplomacy." Only Biden seems like a grown-up. The rest are soundbiting."
Reason - David Weigel: "Richardson gives the only coherent answer on Iraq. The Murtha position, basically: We can pull troops out and not worry about inflaming a civil war because troop presence is metastizing the fighting. No one noticed, but he's been creeping up in the polls -- ahead of Edwards in one -Biden and Clinton call the rest of the Democrats liars."
2008Central: "Dodd says he would advocate a safe withdrawal if nothing happened before then. Dodd cites his family members who have served. Richardson says there is a civil war, and the time to get out is immediately. Biden says the truth is that troops need protection and civilians there need protection. Biden says 70% of deaths in Iraq are from IEDs and can be prevented with mine resistant vehicles and he is proud to have voted for them."
DWSUWF: Biden is my top ranked Dem for a reason.

======

SOCIAL SECURITY & TAXES
Wonkette: "Ha ha, “Mitt Romney Money” is a sorta funny insult. — Oh shit, Biden’s got less money than I do. Does that include his house? Surely he owns a couple of houses."
Daily Kos Commenters: Albatros, Rjones & KimD: "Richardson - bipartisan fix; major prevention focus for diabetes, no raids or privatization of SS, safety net of the country no politicization of the issues - Universal pension, early health issues, etc. - Richardson getting better (more relaxed) Richardson says anything Most of the time it has nothing to do with the question he's asked."
Andrew Sullivan: "Raise Taxes or Cut Benefits? A simple, vital question. No one answers. A polity that cannot address its own fiscal viability is a polity that needs to be rebooted."
Reason - David Weigel: "More and bigger entitlements! Maybe if we keep increasing the minimum wage we can take larger deductions from those checks and pay for all of this. 8:45: One of Howard Stern's sidekicks asks if his taxes will go up. "No," says Dennis Kucinich. "We will destroy the economy. "
2008Central: "Richardson says that bipartisan solutions are key, and that he’d do things like instituting a national 401K. Biden says tax cuts on the top 1% are un-needed. Will Democrats raise taxes? Kucinich says no, that he would end war and NAFTA and get better return on their taxes."
DWSUWF: Either/Or question gets Neither/Whatever answer.

======

HEALTH CARE & GUNS
Wonkette: "Hillary Care! It’s back! It’s better! But Hillary cares. — What you learned, Hillary, is that it doesn’t matter what you want and what every other developed country has, because this country is owned by the health insurance & pharmaceutical corporations." - "Finally, a candidate puts down the stupid YouTube morons! The video cretin is caressing his machine gun and calling it “my baby,” and Biden responds by calling him a mental case. Outstanding! And then says the guy shouldn’t have a gun at all, and is a dangerous lunatic. Ha ha."
Daily Kos Commenters: LithiumCola: "Universal Coverage - Edwards: Obama doesn't cover everyone. I do. You have to mandate coverage to cover everyone. I went on a 3 day poverty tour. Last day I was in Appalachia. Met a guy who couldn't talk for 50 years because of a cleft palate. In the richest country on Earth. Clinton: The fact that this is happening in a country is a disgrace. Yes, I did try in 93, and I have the scars to prove it. Care is a universal value. Decency and respect. (Didn't answer the question). Not everyone has answered yet but they move on to another question. Dodd rightly gets outraged that they switched questions on him. I hope they revolt soon en masse. Dodd in favor of Stem Cell research. Programs for obesity reduction. Richardson: covers undocumented workers."
Daily Kos Commenters: Pmob & WMTrialLawyer: "what a fucking nut. - the guy with the automatic gun, I mean." "Oh. My. God. - Clio, Michigan. Couldn't get a better stereotype for the Michigan Militia and assault weapons than that guy right there. I grew up in Mid-Michigan. I know of where I speak. I moved for a good reason, I tell ya."
Andrew Sullivan: "Hillary Wins Again - She's so much better a debater and performer than she used to be. You know how much I hate to say this: but she destroyed the opposition tonight: out-classing it, out-debating it, and avoiding the usual pitfalls. I wish it weren't so, but it's what I saw. If she keeps this up, it's hers."
Reason - David Weigel: " Edwards met a guy who got his cleft palate fixed when he was 50. Lucky for him he could kick! And jump. Aaaaand kick!" - "Bill Richardson and Joe Biden make a bold stand against crazy people. I'm the guy who originally wrote the assault weapons ban," Biden says." - "People with guns are crazy! Who knew?"
2008Central: "Gun question about gun control. Richardson says instant background checks are the key. Also talks about poverty in the ghetto to prevent gun violence. Biden says “he needs help” if someone believes having an assault weapon is crucial."
DWSUWF: You know - somebody at CNN had to pick that guy to represent gun owners. Sometimes I am sympathetic to the view of Right about Maintream Media. I hope they pick some tree-spiking, tire slashing, Eco-Terrorist to ask the Republicans a question about Global Warming.

======

THE FORMAT & ANDERSON COOPER
Wonkette: "Please Kill Us: YouTubers Are Idiots" - "Wonkette likes Anderson Cooper’s shoes. Ha ha, Wonkette likes nothing. Good night!"
Daily Kos - KOS his own self: "I actually thought the debate was pretty cool. Drudge had a derisive headline earlier today that said something like, "Is this a way to choose a president?" For my part, I give an emphatic "yes"! Anything that makes politics fun is a good thing. And, for example, the Gore question from Tennessee and the Snowman and his snowchild were fun. This was a positive, and I hope to see more of it become culturally acceptable in the presidential process."
Andrew Sullivan: "I'd say it was a big success as a concept, although I wouldn't be as excitable as JPod. If you're sick of people like me on television, or worse, then the direct questions from regular voters and non-voters must have been a breath of extremely fresh air (there's another asthmatic metaphor). I was fearing it would be lame. It wasn't. Anderson was calm and appropriately tough (and, yes, I'm a friend but I'd say if he sucked as well). His affect was particularly well-suited to the new YouTube format"
Reason - David Weigel: "The YouTube thing... worked. It was cloying and the campaign videos should have been cut, but it mostly worked. No moderator would have tossed out an athiesm question, although in the future it'd be nice to have a non-blowhard ask that question."
2008Central: "Hilarious ending."
DWSUWF: DWSUWF regrets not making his own YouTube video. We've got till September. Initial reaction is that Biden was best and Richardson redeemed himself from earlier shitty performances. As is the custom - I'll sleep on it and update this with final reactions during the morning hangover. I really really need to plan this better next time to make sure I have full spectrum of live bloggers.

===

UPDATE: 07-23
I just retrofit 2008Central.net's live blog as a replacement for MIA Moderate Voice.

UPDATE: 07-25 - better late than never.

Concluding Thoughts

Biden was best, again. Richardson exceeded low expectations. Obama fell short of high expectations. Edwards fell short of low expectations. Kucinich met zero expectations. That other guy has white hair. Mike Gravel's schtick not as entertaining as YouTube videos. YouTube questions were better and more entertaining than Britt Hume. YouTube questions were not that entertaining. It is Hillary Clinton's nomination to lose. She didn't lose it Monday night. Chuck Hagel is the GOP's only hope. The GOP has no hope.

Divided and Balanced.™ Now that is fair.

Technorati tags: divided government, Barack Obama, libertarian, 2008 election, Hillary Clinton,Dennis Kucinich, debate,Joe Biden, Democrat, Republican,John Edwards,Mike Gravel,Chris Dodd, Bill Richardson, Al Gore.

07:07:07 07/07/07 Presidential Candidate Stack Ranking

A new ranking, for no other reason than the very first Presidential Stack Ranking was posted on 06:06:06 AM on 06/06/06, and it has been more than a month and at least two debates since the last update. Without further ado, the first DWSUWF stack ranking since DWSUWF announced a change in party affiliation and turning Republican ...

DWSUWF 2008 Presidential Candidate
Stack Ranking v. 2.6

1) Chuck Hagel (R)
2 ) Joe Biden (D)
3) Ron Paul (R)
4) Hillary Clinton (D)
5) Mike Bloomberg (I)
6) Barack Obama (D)
7) John McCain (R)
8) Bill Richardson (D)
9) Mitt Romney (R)
10) Al Gore (D)

Changes: Bill Richardson drops on the Dem side, based on his crappy performance in the debates, leading one to conclude that he is actually running for Vice President and further surmising that Barack Obama has the inside track for that role. Biden continues to be the most articulate and intelligent of the Dems in the debate, and Clinton the most presidential. They move up. I added Bloomberg as an off color (pinkish) Republican, as it is clear he is running for something, is getting a lot of attention, and his (unlikely) election would still serve to provide a divided government with a (likely) Democratic Congress in 2009. Adding Bloomberg to the ranking also gives me the opportunity to drop Giuliani, as I found his "tortured" reply to the Fox News "Jack Bauer hypothetical" to be unacceptable, and I just don't need two New York mayors in the list. Romney's answer "doubling Guantanamo" was equally offensive, but since Romney has no actual convictions, just says whatever he thinks he needs to say to get the nomination (delivered with Clinton-esque aplomb), and will certainly govern by the polls, I am less concerned about a Romney presidency.

Ron Paul continues to show surprising strength and is running the most internet savvy campaign. I still don't think he has a snowball's chance in hell of getting the nomination, but an interesting dynamic is emerging. Support for Ron Paul (the only declared anti-war candidate on the Republican side) is creating a base in the Republican Party that could easily pave the way for a Hagel candidacy if/when he decides to enter the race as a Republican. Similarly, Bloomberg may be blazing another trail via Unity '08, that could open that path for a Hagel independent run. I see both as (perhaps unwitting) stalking horses for the man who would make the best President - Chuck Hagel.

As a reminder, the DWSUWF stack ranking is a preference not a prediction. This list represents the top ten candidates DWSUWF would like to see as President, stack ranked in order of preference. Imposed on this list are two constraints: alternating political party affiliation, and a divided government outcome in 2008.

Divided and Balanced.™ Now that is fair.

Technorati tags: divided government, libertarian, Chuck Hagel,2008 election, John McCain, debate, Republican,Rudy Giuliani,Mitt Romney,Ron Paul,Mike Bloomberg,Joe Biden,Hillary Clinton,Bill Richardson,Al Gore,Democrat.

Live blogging the live bloggers - Democratic Debate Part Deux

UPDATED: Tuesday, June 4, 2007

It is the Democrats turn. The declared Democratic presidential candidates will take the stage again tonight, this time in New Hampshire for a debate hosted by CNN -

"CNN's Wolf Blitzer will moderate the debates and WMUR's Scott Spradling and the Union Leader's Tom Fahey will pose questions to the Democratic and Republican candidates. WMUR's Jennifer Vaughn will moderate questions from the audience."

The important question is one I have asked before:

"There are plenty of bloggers covering the Republican debate live tonight, but is anyone covering the live bloggers? DWSUWF rushes in where other, more sensible bloggers, fear to tread. "

I was going to blow this one off, as I am on a fishing holiday in the backwoods of the Upper Peninsula of Michigan. But, having slept through the first Democratic debate, while covering two Republican debates, we will (in the interest of Divided & Balanced reporting), try to stay awake this time. Full disclosure: We are not so far "backwoods" that we must suffer without basic cable, a cable modem, and a wireless router, so your fearless derivative blogger will once again attempt to monitor and report real-time on other bloggers covering the debate live. As before, we'll include Daily Kos, Heading Right, Wonkette, for a "left", "right" and "whatever" perspective and will add the Reason Hit and Run Blog for a libertarian point of view. I'll also add a moderate blog if I can find one blogging live between now and 7:00 PM EDT.

Here we go ...

======

Pre-Debate Comments:
Wonkette: No Action?
Daily Kos: "Poll: Going into the debate, who are you supporting?" [DWSUWF voted for Richardson]
Heading Right: No Action?
Moderate Voice:Holly- "I don’t pay for CNN, MSNBC or Fox News so I can’t watch these debates on TV. I have managed to set up Internet viewing via CNN Pipeline Web Player. If I were unable to have broadband Internet, I wouldn’t have access to the debates. In order to provide adequate information to the voting poor, let’s move the debates back to CBS, NBC, ABC and Fox broadcast channels."
Reason - David Weigel: "I'm in Manchester, New Hampshire (where, as a Free State Projecter could tell you, it is now hailing) to chase a few stories and cover both parties' debates"
=====
DWSUWF:Turns out basic cable does not cover CNN here. Had the same problem as Holly. viewing though the web now. Off to a rough start.

=====

First Question:
Wonkette: No Action?
Daily Kos: "Clinton asks she agrees with Edwards; she does not. Hoists up 9/11 (f*cking hate that. F*ck that.). God, she's as bad as Giuliani on this."
Heading Right: No Action?
Moderate Voice:Comments - Nick Rivera: "Wow! Are we actually having a real debate?! Five minutes into the debate, and the candidates are actually criticizing on another and drawing key distinctions between one another."
Reason - David Weigel: "Hillary Clinton, trying to grab back some of that "Democratic hawk" mojo after voting against the Iraq supplemental, basically agrees with Rudy Giuliani that it's not a bumper sticker and 9/11 9/11 9/11."
=====
DWSUWF: Ok got the pipeleine working, and we think we have a quorum, will go looking for a right wing blog.

=====

Biden & Gravel straight talk:
Wonkette: No Action?
Daily Kos: "Biden says that Democrats should be telling the truth - basically that we don't have enough votes to get us out. Plainly speaks that the war won't end until we have a Democratic president."
The Fix: Chris Cillizza: "Wolf Blitzer asked the candidates to raise their hands if they thought English should be the official language of the United States, former Sen. Mike Gravel (D-Alaska) was the lone person to raise his hand. But Sen. Obama jumped in after Gravel explained himself."This is the kind of question that is designed precisely to divide us," said Obama -- calling it a "disservice."
Moderate Voice: "Does it look to anyone else as if the major candidates are in the middle of the line while the minor candidates are on the edges?"
Reason - David Weigel: "7:22: Biden: "The last thing we Democrats need to do is not tell truth. I love these guys who tell you they're going to stop the war." You can understand his attitude, but is he aiming at Kucinich or at the guy who spent 6 years in the Senate and thinks he can lecture Joe F*cking Biden?"
=====
DWSUWF: I like Biden's demeanor tonight. May have to move him above Richardson again. Richardson just does not do well in this format. Substituted Wahsington Post's Chris Cillizza for M.I.A. blogs.

=====

Don't Ask Don't Tell:
Daily Kos: tgray comment:"doesn't make sense for Hillary to support "don't ask..." the Clinton Admin signed it into law but that was not what they originally wanted. it was a capitulation!"
The Fix: Chris Cillizza: "on this particular question, Clinton wasn't afraid to say her husband's administration made a mistake. Clinton said "don't ask, don't tell" was a "transition policy" that wasn't well implemented and "it's not the best way to do it." She said gays and lesbians should be allowed to serve in the armed forces and be treated the same as all other recruits."
Moderate Voice: "I’m glad to see that nobody likes DADT anymore!"
Reason - David Weigel: "7:49: The gays in the military question would be dealt with a little faster in a Republican debate. I mean, Mike Huckabee would probably call Edwards a queer and run around the stage for high fives, but otherwise they'd all say "nope" and we'd move on to a new question. After a little tussle, everyone agrees: Gays in the military now!"
=====
DWSUWF: Hillary is laughing. A lot. Too much. Perhaps the latest effort to "warm up" her image?

=====

Chairs and Pens and Pandering:
Daily Kos:"Biden: Do away with regime change policy. 10 years away from nuclear weapon; there are so many other ways, but take it out if there's a missile on the launch pad."

The Fix: Chris Cillizza:"[Dodd] delivered a muscular statement about the role of the next president when it comes to keeping Americans safe. "No one is going to be elected president who is not going to have as their primary responsibility to keep us safe and secure," said Dodd. A nice moment for him. And did we mention all the candidates are now sitting?"

Moderate Voice: Holly- "BTW I don’t care if Kucinich drops his pen or somebody thinks Sen. Clinton is dressed like a bee."
Reason - David Weigel: "8:15: Given the chance to pander and tell a military mom that he'll let veterans use any hospital they want, Obama doesn't—he wants to fix the VA. Hillary nods. Richardson does not nod: "I will give your son a hero's health care."
=====
DWSUWF: The citizen questions are better than the MSM.
=====
Kill Obama Osama:
Daily Kos:"Kucinich: No assassinations, International Criminal Court [hints Bush should go as well]"

The Fix: Chris Cillizza: "It's not exactly following him to the gates of Hell, but Sens. Obama and Clinton just gave tough answers to a question on whether they would take advantage of a 20 minute window to kill Osama bin Laden even if civilians would also be killed."

Moderate Voice: Holly- "Dennis, I am willing to kill OBL with my own hands. Peace requires justice."
Reason - David Weigel: "8:28: Blitzer tries out the CNN version of the 24 question on... Dennis Kucinich. It's actually not news that he wouldn't kill bin Laden if given the chance, but it's nice for the rest of the Democrats, who will disagree... 8:29: ...Obama doesn't disagree! No, wait, he does. He wouldn't assassinate most people, but he would drop some bombs into Osama's batcave."
=====
DWSUWF: Who says politicians can't learn? Everyone gets tougher. Except Dennis.

=====

Who Won?
Daily Kos: Talex -"Here Is An Interestin Metric - Clinton Won. Given that I expect Obama and Edwards supporters to vote for their candidate on the dkos poll Clinton is logging 17% on who won the debate. Given that she gets 5% or less support here I think the dkos poll shows she actually won the debate as she peeled off some Edwards and Obama support..."

The Fix: Chris Cillizza: "The discussion was largely controlled by the Big 3, however, who fielded questions on a number of foreign policy matters (Iraq, Iran, Pakistan) and a handful of domestic concerns like health care and veterans' benefits. Biden occasionally broke through the clutter but the other second-tier candidates struggled to distinguish themselves. Tune into The Fix tomorrow for a look at the winners and losers from tonight's debate. And don't forget -- we are in New Hampshire all the way through Tuesday night's Republican debate."

Moderate Voice: Holly- "Debate’s over. I’d say that ALL of the candidates had some good moments."
Reason - Comments: CRIMETHINK -"Now if Ron Paul wins the text message poll for this debate, we'll know something's up" ... MSM PUPPET MASTER - "Of course, Hillary won the debate. If anyone else wins the poll, their supporters must have been cheating. QED."

DWSUWF concludes: Biden and Gravel were strong. Doesn't matter. Obama and Edwards had a few good moments. Doesn't matter. Richardson and Dodd showed up, sort of. Doesn't matter. Kucinich doesn't matter. Clinton fake laughed too much. She wins.

=====

UPDATE - The Morning After Post-Mortem Posts

Daily Kos: Kos has a truly embarrasing and pointless post and poll on Mike Gravel:

"So is there really a point to having Gravel, in between advocating English as an "official" language and promoting his right-wing flat tax, sit on the debates doing nothing but attack other Democrats?"

Surpringly (at least to DWSUWF) most Kossacks vote to deny Gravel an invitation to additional debates.

Reason - Dave Weigel: Weigel was also thinking about Mike Gravel: "

Wags used to joke about a Ron Paul-Mike Gravel unity ticket. They're both old, they're both odd, they're both hated in their parties—they could rent out Ken Kesey's bus and convert into their own Straight Talk Express! Well, here's Gravel sounding alternately super-libertarian and semi-coherent."

The Fix: Chris Cillizza: Cillizza arrives at a similar conclusion to DWSUWF, declaring Clinton a winner 12 hours later, probably after sneaking a peak at this blog:

"Hillary Rodham Clinton: The New York Senator was placed at the center of the stage last night at Saint Anselm College, a fitting place for the role she played in the festivities. Clinton was in the middle of nearly every exchange and repeatedly sought to speak for the group. She cast the Democrats on the stage as united against a common opponent -- George W. Bush and the Republican Party. ("This is George Bush's war," she said. "He is responsible for this war.") That approach made Clinton look magnanimous and presidential. Put simply: Clinton is a pro. She is polished, smart and savvy -- all of which was on display last night."

Daily Dish -Andrew Sullivan: Sullivan did not need 12 hours to arrive at a similar conclusion:

"She did well, it seems to me. There were times when her robo-lecture act began to wear down my ear-drums, but, in general, Senator Clinton bestrode the debate as an authoritative figure. In fact, I've never witnessed a U.S. political debate in which a woman clearly dominated as she did tonight. She was hawkish, and I was frankly surprised to hear her state baldly that "we are safer than we were," referring to the Bush administration's counter-terrorism policies... Still: she wins this one. It kills me to admit it. But there you are. And as it sinks in, a dreadful specter emerges. Think June 2008. Think Romney vs Clinton. Plastic vs Perma-Freeze. It could happen."

Moderate Voice: Robert Stein- Stein has some pithy observations (also posted at Connecting the Dots):

"Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama, obviously on defense as front runners, lost no ground, with the former First Lady looking somewhat more relaxed than she has been up to now... Mike Gravel overplayed his crotchety, foxy grandfather role while Dennis Kucinich evoked admiration for his sincerity and sadness over the fact that it is irrelevant. Overall, the tone was satisfyingly serious and collegial if not wildly informative, and an interesting set-up for the God-fearing. self-righteous gang of poseurs later this week."

Wonkette: I remain bitter about Wonkette taking the night off from live blogging the debate. My derivative live blog suffers when I don't have a good smarmy live blogger from which to steal. I hope Wonkette will be more considerate about their impact on fellow bloggers when they next consider taking the night off. Wonkette finally gets back to work this morning:

"...props to CNN for their placement of the candidates on stage, allowing us all to witness the sexual tension simmer between Obama and Hillary, and sticking Kucinich and Gravel on the furtherest ends of the stage where they wouldn’t bother the real candidates. Here is a picture where you can sort of see the box they let Dennis stand on."

DWSUWF: I was surprised that Heading Right was not live blogging, leaving a partisan gap in my methodology. They were live blogging the previous four debates. Moreover, After an admittedly hasty search, I could not find any major right-of-center blog live-blogging the debate. Odd. It was almost as if they got a memo or e-mail or something to not draw attention to the Dems debate. I never saw it. I guess the spam filter must have eaten mine.

Divided and Balanced.™ Now that is fair.

Technorati tags: divided government, Barack Obama, libertarian, 2008 election, Hillary Clinton,Dennis Kucinich, debate,Joe Biden, Democrat, Republican,John Edwards,Mike Gravel,Chris Dodd, Bill Richardson, Al Gore.